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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 17 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1515<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Subject: Keyboard Casualties<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re Religious Texts [ot]<BR>
Re Ethnicicty in Traveller<BR>
silly traveller<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Ethnicity<BR>
Re Rations<BR>
Barrelcrahs<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Social UPP # was Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!<BR>
Re: Barrelcrash<BR>
Re: silly traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1982 00:46:46 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: will the people of the third Imperium all have light brown skin as<BR>
> a result of the various races interbreeding, or will there still be lots of <BR>
> variation due to custom and the huge size of inhabited space?<BR>
<BR>
I think the answer is yes.  There will be a lot in interbreeding<BR>
(Bulworth's speech comes immediately to mind), but the Ancients put so<BR>
many cro-magnon / neanderthal / whatevers around known space that there<BR>
will also be all sorts of variations.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1982 01:13:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
 <BR>
> > Curious question then...if the Solomani are the most physically diverse,<BR>
> > then what parts of Earth did the Vilani and Zhodani come from?<BR>
<BR>
> Those TMLers who own any of the supplements dealing with the Vilani and<BR>
> Zhodani can probably give more information on this subject.  Sadly, I am<BR>
> not among their numbers.  C'est la vie.<BR>
<BR>
I have the Zhodani, Vilani, and Solomani supplements, but am too sleepy<BR>
to look at them now.  I don't recall any discussion of this issue in<BR>
them or any other Traveller material.  Why wouldn't the Zhodani and<BR>
Vilani (as well as the many minor human races) have developed many<BR>
races, like the Solomani did on Terra?  It's my understanding that the<BR>
contemporary races of Terra -- caucasian, asian, and african -- arose<BR>
within the last 5,000 years.  Caveat, however, that that understanding<BR>
comes from a conversation with my then-girlfriend who was taking an<BR>
anthropology course in college some 20 years ago.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1982 00:49:34 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> Interesting Traveller tie in.  The PC's have been hired to  recover an<BR>
> ancient religious artifact that was looted/stolen from a planet/cult/sect.<BR>
> They get the artifact back to its rightful owners, but now it has been so<BR>
> long since they have had it, no one remembers just how to use the darned<BR>
> thing anymore. Now someone has to track down and recover the only living descendents <BR>
> of the priests who went into hiding when the artifact was stolen. Especially hard<BR>
> if the descendants don't want to come :0<BR>
<BR>
The first few Traveller adventures I ran had similar themes (way back in<BR>
1982-83 or so).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1982 01:04:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > I'm always confused by caucasians' inability to tell<BR>
> > one asian race from another: usually, I get it about<BR>
[deletion] <BR>
> Once a friend of mine at school, a Korean, was asked if she was Chinese by<BR>
> another friend of mine at school (who incidentally isn't caucasian, but<BR>
[deletion] <BR>
> After she was finished, I asked her what ethnic group I was from, and she<BR>
> was stumped, and she got the point. Personally, I get people who have<BR>
<BR>
"All humans look alike."  <BR>
- -Gvurragherugh, Emissary from Rukh.<BR>
<BR>
"All humans look alike.  You can't tell an engineer from a soldier<BR>
except by their clothes." <BR>
Mayeat, Droyne sport travelling in Regina Subsector<BR>
<BR>
"All of those bipeds smell alike -- humans, vargr, aslan, droyne -- like<BR>
rotting flesh."<BR>
- -Speaker to Bipeds, Trade Envoy from the 2,000 Worlds to the Imperial<BR>
Court<BR>
<BR>
"The humans are all equally inscrutable. The Imperial envoy's thoughts<BR>
and feelings are as hidden from me as those of the ambassadors from<BR>
Zhodane or the Solomani Confederation."<BR>
Hliawherliayhou, Clan Chief<BR>
<BR>
+/#^^_<BR>
M. Kandinsky, during a visit to the Hiver colony in Australia<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1982 01:06:33 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Subject: Keyboard Casualties<BR>
<BR>
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
Welcome to the Traveller Mailing List.  Please read responsibly.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:44:18 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<Sethkimmel@aol.com> wrote:<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << Or maybe one of the characters is a Levite? :-) >><BR>
><BR>
> supposedly I'm a Cohen (I find it hard to believe the genealogy is still<BR>
> uninterrupted from Aaron...), so I can open it...:-)<BR>
<BR>
The geneologies are long lost.  However; Aaron's bones<BR>
are not.  The distinction is genetic, not genealogical.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:44:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Thomas Vickers <redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
> One Question Seth,<BR>
> Can/do folks still trace their lineage to the Levites?<BR>
> I always figured that the one draw back to getting the Temple rebuilt was<BR>
> the actual 2000 year drought in actual Jewish priests?<BR>
<BR>
The folks in charge of such things have been stamping<BR>
birth certificates with a Levitical "seal" for some time<BR>
now.  The "Jewish priest" hand book is available to<BR>
whoever would read it (it has even been translated into<BR>
hundreds of different languages).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:47:15 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
><BR>
>> No, you were supposed to think "drugs".  At either Woodstock or Altamont,<BR>
can't remember which (I was very very small at the time) there were<BR>
announcements:  "DO NOT TAKE THE BROWN ACID!!!"  I always wondered what it<BR>
did.  Hiroshi (my rather significant and definitely other -- a friend once<BR>
said "men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and Hiroshi is from Omicron<BR>
Zeta VIII, but we love him" -- probably knows, even though it was before his<BR>
time too...)<BR>
><BR>
>You're showing your age if you're confusing Woodstock and Altamont --<BR>
you're either very young (and don't have memories of the time) or very, very<BR>
old (and forgetting).<BR>
><BR>
I said I was very small.  Very, very small.  I wasn't there.  I heard about<BR>
it from one of the other ex-husbands (I have 3, even though I am "very<BR>
young")-- the one that was the Deadhead.  I know that Altamont was crazy and<BR>
was the inspiration (if you can call it that) for a Grateful Dead song that<BR>
was decidedly critical.<BR>
<BR>
> Woodstock was the event where the brown acid was bad.<BR>
><BR>
That was the confusion.  I thought so-- but it sounded like something that<BR>
would have happened at Altamont.  (Gimme a break, I was waaaaaaaaaaaay under<BR>
10.)<BR>
<BR>
> Now I'm showing my age -- I don't recall who made the announcement (it was<BR>
one of the performers, in a very famous film clip),nor exactly what the<BR>
brown acid did (it probably made you really sick --vomiting and<BR>
hallucinating at the same time).<BR>
><BR>
I saw that film clip but can't remember who it was either.  =(<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Anyway, Veedback doesn't seem to have these problems, probably because it<BR>
is primarily a commercial venture, and not trying to (or pretending to try<BR>
to) change the world.  Like concerts in contemporary times, a Veedback<BR>
performance is a professionally-orchestrated spectacle.  It's not anything<BR>
like the Concert for Tanoose (which becomes more slick and professional<BR>
every year).<BR>
><BR>
Veedback is a John M. Ford creation.  Nothing like what happened at Altamont<BR>
could ever happen in one of his stories.  Not poetic enough.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan         93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out here who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                     -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:47:03 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca> wrote:<BR>
> >From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
> >My question is: Is NASA's recent history just a string of bad luck, the<BR>
> >fruits of our "modern, improved" education system, or little gray dudes<BR>
> >from Zeta Reticuli getting in some target practice before the big<BR>
> >invasion?<BR>
><BR>
>   I'd go with #1, unless it starts happening every damned time - then I'd<BR>
> bet on a variant of #3 :>  If you want to pin it on "modern" education<BR>
> then you probably have to go back to the `60's & `70's, and then ask why<BR>
> other fields aren't equally conspicuously crippled by incompetence*.<BR>
><BR>
>   * or are they? :)<BR>
<BR>
They are.  However; mission critical in food service, IT or<BR>
even the construction industry is not what mission critical<BR>
is in rocket science.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:45:44 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Religious Texts [ot]<BR>
<BR>
>The Torah (Old Testament) has a least one MAJOR change in it during the<BR>
>translation process (Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English in the King James<BR>
>Bible). In the ten Commandments, it is "Thou shall not MURDER", which in the<BR>
>King James Bible is "Thou shall not kill". I call this major as it encourages<BR>
>pacifism (which I don't believe in - see the 2nd Amem. flamewar). Is there<BR>
>any other changes that is pertinent to the Ark?<BR>
<BR>
Well, the first traslation you list is THE kicker; at least a few sections<BR>
are written without jots and tiddles (the vowels), thus the interpretations<BR>
are "traditional" but not supported by the copus of the hebraic<BR>
originals... The most noteable "question" of this kind is whether a certain<BR>
prophet was fed by Ravens or Arabs... since the two terms are identical<BR>
except for vowels. Also, when lloking at the new testament, some was<BR>
originally in Hebrew, some in the related Aramaic, some in Greek. The Greek<BR>
and Latin Vulgates were codifications to allow Then-Mainstream-Christianity<BR>
(which is not to say it was the mainstream religion, merely the mainstream<BR>
of christianity) catholic (Soon to become Catholic and Orthodox not long<BR>
after) to codify a formal (and less interpretive) written corpus of canon<BR>
so as to better be able to fight it's internal wars with heresy.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav 1: The Traveller Settings have yet to truly undergo the kind of<BR>
unification that christianity has... we have 5 official settings, all of<BR>
which differ. What is valid in the canon of one may be contradictory to the<BR>
canon of another. Additionally, the DGP materials are much like the<BR>
"Apochryphal Gospels"... those whose sect uses them admits they aren't part<BR>
of the mainstream anymore, but are likely to continue using them; they can<BR>
also be compared to the hebraic "Book of Lillith", which seems (from the<BR>
translation I've read) to be covering a period from just after creation,<BR>
through the exile of Cain to Nod. Note also that Adam was the first jew to<BR>
get a divorce, if you accept the book of lillith....<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav 2: It is likely, that, by the time of the 3I, that the<BR>
descendant/derivative religions of Christianity will be as different as<BR>
christianity is from the common ancestor religion of Judaism,<BR>
Zorastrianism, and Islam. And, most likely, there will be at least 2 more<BR>
jewish prophets, and 1 or more miracles with celebrations; Catholocism, if<BR>
it survives, will likely have 10s of thousands of saints cannonized<BR>
(assuming the current rates of 1-4 per year...); I'm not conversant enough<BR>
with Islam to make educated guesses there, besides that whatever grows from<BR>
it will probably not recognize most of the other islam derivatives, let<BR>
alone the other peoples of the book.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:56:56 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Ethnicicty in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
>Curious question then...if the Solomani are the most physically diverse,<BR>
>then what parts of Earth did the Vilani and Zhodani come from?<BR>
><BR>
>- --<BR>
>Josh<BR>
<BR>
Looking at the descriptions of the Zhodani, they are obviously russified<BR>
poles.... just look at the slavic-style consonant clusters in their<BR>
language!<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, though, assuming we work from the timelines, the ethnic<BR>
groupings of the time would largely be irrelevant, as they were grabbing<BR>
not Homo Sapiens Sapiens, but at best, Early Modern Humans (H. Sapiens).<BR>
Moder humanity, according to the genetic markers (Time, last spring, jan or<BR>
feb 99 I think) is only some 40,000 years old. The Anchients were snagging<BR>
Humanity some 300,000 years ago. Definitely Homo ___. Which flavor (Except<BR>
Sapiens) is not readily memorable nor determinable.<BR>
<BR>
Thus. the Second Millenium of Mankind is soime 36,000 BC, the Second<BR>
Millenium of the Common Era (AKA Anno Domini Jesu Christe) is comming to a<BR>
close in days, and the second millenium according to the jewish calender is<BR>
long gone.... the chinese calendar is into (IIRC) it's sixth millenium.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1982 02:03:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: silly traveller<BR>
<BR>
> From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
> Now, new career path... runs just like a merchant character, only the retirement <BR>
> benefits table goes<BR>
> like:<BR>
> 1. cash<BR>
> 2. booty (har har, stuff dat ain't cash yet)<BR>
> 3. parrot<BR>
> 4. cutlass <BR>
> 5. annoyingly persistent law enforcement offical who you killed their <BR>
> child/parent/spouse/partner once but have forgotten it<BR>
> 6. the Explosive Decompression Long Jump<BR>
<BR>
Kyle has just created the first Traveller _mustering out table_ with a<BR>
chance of death. Congratulations!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 05:12:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Woodstock was the event where the brown acid was bad.  Now I'm<BR>
>showing my age -- I don't recall who made the announcement (it was<BR>
>one of the performers, in a very famous film clip), nor exactly what<BR>
>the brown acid did (it probably made you really sick -- vomiting and<BR>
>hallucinating at the same time).<BR>
<BR>
I'm way too young to remember this first hand, but it probably wasn't making<BR>
anybody sick. The physical effects of LSD, even when it's "bad" aren't<BR>
terribly impressive.<BR>
<BR>
However, if I recall my Woodstock lore, and it's been about a decade since<BR>
last I read up on it, the brown acid was thought to be causing bad trips. It<BR>
probably wasn't the "fault" of the acid though, it's much more likely it was<BR>
simply the environment that was freaking people out.<BR>
<BR>
> Altamont was the opposite of Woodstock in many ways.  The<BR>
>Rolling Stones headlined it and were a very dominant force, unlike<BR>
>the general cooperative spirit at Woodstock.  The Stones hired the<BR>
>Hell's Angels for security guards.  There was a lot of violence<BR>
>(allegedly started by drunken Hell's Angels, apparently taking their<BR>
>cue from the Chicago police), and many audience members were<BR>
>seriously injured.<BR>
<BR>
One of the members of Jefferson Airplane (can't remember his name) was<BR>
beaten up pretty badly by the Hell's Angels at one point, and a black guy<BR>
was killed by them.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:11:53 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Ethnicity<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Well, Kyle had said that he was confused by the inability of caucasians to<BR>
>tell the difference between different asian ethnic groups. It's not like<BR>
>there are flash cards, or classes which drill the differences between<BR>
>varying ethnicities into people's heads.<BR>
><BR>
Some hate-group was attempting to distribute "Racial Identification<BR>
Fieldbooks" near the High School I graduated from during my senior year.<BR>
They quickly vanished... The Eskimoes, Aleuts (pronounced Al- yootz),<BR>
Tlingtit (Clink-it), Tsimshian (Sim-Shee-ahn), and Haida (Hide-uh) mixed<BR>
well, and present a terrifying force to hate groups... just don't call an<BR>
eskimo or aleut an "indian"....<BR>
<BR>
I doubt that most imperials would know for sure their ethinic mix without<BR>
genetics for specific markers unique to specific phenotypes. Keep in mind<BR>
also, they are probably different (but faily close) species, akin to the<BR>
differences between Horses, Asses, and Zebras.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:16:09 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
>> From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
><BR>
>> ObTrav: will 3I grunts still complain about their<BR>
>> food, and will field rations still bind them up?<BR>
<BR>
Of Course! Said lack of excrement in the short term does have tactical<BR>
advantages. It's a design FEATURE of field rations, not a bug!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:28:02 +0200<BR>
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi><BR>
Subject: Barrelcrahs<BR>
<BR>
i Steve Wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Worth a read of Iain M Banks' "Consider Phlebas" where an equivalent <BR>
> of HEAP rounds were exploding when they hit the shock wave from the <BR>
> round before, right back to the firer resulting in a "barrelcrash..."<BR>
<BR>
	"Consider Phlebas" has many nice ideas, though the Tech Level of <BR>
	Culture is Very High. However, about the "barrelcrash"...<BR>
<BR>
	Roughly similar events has also happened in real life. Currently <BR>
	most warheads (at least those used in man-portable weapons) have <BR>
	a "camo-net safety" which prevents the detonator from working <BR>
	before the warhead has flown several meters from the launcher.<BR>
<BR>
	Before camo-net safety was introduced, mortar crews were <BR>
	sometimes killed when their grenades hit overhanging foliage or <BR>
	camo nets.<BR>
<BR>
	Probably the best-known camo safety is the one used in 40 mm <BR>
	grenade launcher warheads. The old 40 mm HE warhead had <BR>
	spherical pre-fragmented grenade and large spin-armed detonator. <BR>
	When launched, the warhead had to rotate a few times (the <BR>
	launcher has rifled barrel) before the detonator was armed.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
      Antti Lahtinen                lahtinen@ee.tut.fi<BR>
      Researcher, MSc (Eng)         http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:43:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Dec 99, at 20:28, cos 90 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> By your logic, then, Canada, which has gun-control laws that are<BR>
> stricter than any found in the USA, should have a much higher violent<BR>
> crime rate. We do, in fact, have one that is much *lower*. One factor: the<BR>
> relative lack of availability of guns. Sure, someone who really really<BR>
> wants one can probably get one. But a lot of people who in the US would be<BR>
> able to get one would just give up here, since they aren't as easily<BR>
> available. The cost (in time, effort, and possibly cash) is higher than<BR>
> many would want to pay.<BR>
<BR>
However NZ has a higher gun ownership rate than Canada and less strict <BR>
controls (though whether this will remain the case is questionable) has <BR>
a voilent crime rate that is certainly no higher. Compared with <BR>
Australia this is even more marked.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:43:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Dec 99, at 18:48, Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > >"The summer sun is fading as the year grows old,<BR>
> > > And darker days are drawing near.<BR>
> > > The winter winds will be much colder,<BR>
> > > Now you're not here."<BR>
> <BR>
> > Thanks for that.  I love this album.  Just rereading the above and<BR>
> > having the tune kickstart in my memory has brought me out in goosebumps.<BR>
> <BR>
> I used that as the epitaph for a character who died in my Mage game.<BR>
> <BR>
> Personally I think that "Thunder Child" is the most stiurring song, as<BR>
> well as having some great assonance<BR>
<BR>
I've always favoured "The Spirit of Man":<BR>
<BR>
"There must be something worth living for<BR>
There must be something worth trying for<BR>
Even some things worth dying for<BR>
And if one man can stand tall<BR>
There must be some hope for us all<BR>
Somewhere, somewhere in the spirit of man"<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, my flatmates, who've banned for from playing it are away right <BR>
now...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:43:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 16 Dec 99, at 23:58, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> The Torah (Old Testament) has a least one MAJOR change in it during the<BR>
> translation process (Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English in the King James<BR>
> Bible). In the ten Commandments, it is "Thou shall not MURDER", which in<BR>
> the King James Bible is "Thou shall not kill". I call this major as it<BR>
> encourages pacifism (which I don't believe in - see the 2nd Amem.<BR>
> flamewar). Is there any other changes that is pertinent to the Ark?<BR>
<BR>
Just confuse things within the Anglican church the prayer book says <BR>
"Thou shall do no murder".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 07:40:08 -0400<BR>
From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
Subject: Social UPP # was Re: Full auto Pilgramage Pics...and DITZIE?!?!<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>A slightly more subtle factor to add to an expanded<BR>
>UPP might be wealth disparity.  The average per capita<BR>
>income might be Cr10,000, but 1% of the population<BR>
>might be getting MCr1 while 95% are getting only<BR>
>Cr1,000.  This is a very different planet than one<BR>
>with the same average per capita income but 85% of the<BR>
>population is getting it.  How could we come up with a<BR>
>code for this?<BR>
<BR>
Income distribution curves as I have usually seen them drawn (income on x axis,<BR>
%with that income or less on Y) are usually quite smooth curves, so it should be<BR>
possible to classify with a small number of parameters, or to divide into the<BR>
usual 16 fuzzy catagories,<BR>
<BR>
Another parameter worth generating/calculating might be the demographic curve --<BR>
at least pre industrial (high infant mortality) vs industrial (most children<BR>
grow up) with some transition classes.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:50:43 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Barrelcrash<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>>Worth a read of Iain M Banks' "Consider Phlebas" where an equivalent<BR>
>>of HEAP rounds were exploding when they hit the shock wave from the<BR>
>>round before, right back to the firer resulting in a barrelcrash..."<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>Roughly similar events has also happened in real life. Currently<BR>
>most warheads (at least those used in man-portable weapons) have<BR>
>a "camo-net safety" which prevents the detonator from working<BR>
>before the warhead has flown several meters from the launcher.<BR>
><BR>
And remembering the incident in CP more clearly the gun in question had this <BR>
facility too, it was either disabled/faulty.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:04:34 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: silly traveller<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
> > From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > Now, new career path... runs just like a merchant<BR>
> character, only the retirement <BR>
> > benefits table goes<BR>
> > like:<BR>
> > 1. cash<BR>
> > 2. booty (har har, stuff dat ain't cash yet)<BR>
> > 3. parrot<BR>
> > 4. cutlass <BR>
> > 5. annoyingly persistent law enforcement offical<BR>
> who you killed their <BR>
> > child/parent/spouse/partner once but have<BR>
> forgotten it<BR>
> > 6. the Explosive Decompression Long Jump<BR>
> <BR>
> Kyle has just created the first Traveller _mustering<BR>
> out table_ with a<BR>
> chance of death. Congratulations!<BR>
> <BR>
Excuse me, but CT allowed you to be killed during one<BR>
of your terms, why not at mustering out? Anyhow, I<BR>
said you took the long jump, not that you died. Since<BR>
you can survive twenty or so seconds (longer with the<BR>
GURPS breath control skill!), it could be like a<BR>
really crazy initiation issue... those who've been in<BR>
the military and gone to boarding schools will<BR>
recognise this as not too far-fetched an initiation thing!<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1515<BR>
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